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GeorgeC7 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Good evening, my HOA in Concord,NH is requiring any volunteer to sign a waiver, one item which I am not happy about , it basically says that if a volunteer causes bodily injury or ,property damage to a 3rd party , they can be held personally liable for all monetary costs and attorneys fee ordered by the courts.
Thoughts
Thanks
Geo๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
upgrade your insurance! ours covers volunteers.
why should anyone volunteer wtih that kind of crap required?

vis ta vie
GeorgeC7 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 3
Posted:
My thoughts exactly!
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Are we talking about volunteer directors? Volunteer officers (like the treasurer)? Volunteers doing handyperson work?

The association's covenants and typically state law typically required the HOA to indemnify the directors and officers, assuming there is no //willful// misconduct (amounting to a crime, from my reading over the years).

The courts do not like to hold directors and officers personally liable. This is because doing so would deter people from volunteering.

The Federal Volunteer Protection Act also offers some protection to those volunteering for a non-profit corporation.

Is this a condominium?
GeorgeC7 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thanks for the reply, this is a condominium, I may be a handy man volunteer if this waiver thing get reworded, the law seems to say gross negligence could be grounds for a law suite, I have read different articles and still not sure, the state of NH opted out of the federal laws , I believe.
Geo ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Our attorney recommended requiring signed "hold harmless" agreements from volunteers *even if the association is carrying enough insurance to cover such things".

Reason: if the association does not have enough insurance to cover a settlement, *the rest will be passed on to the homeowners*. It seems reasonable that this should be passed to the person who caused the accident or damage, and not to people who had nothing to do with it. Since settlements have been rising and some of them are frankly crazy. Last I heard, $2 million pretty normal, although the details matter.

I'll avoid re-posting my usual shtick about why using volunteers can be a bad idea, other than to say that volunteers should not be doing physical labor or handling chemicals. There's a common notion floating around that HOAs shouldn't have to pay for services, and it can lead to unpleasant surprises.

Anyone who isn't comfortable signing an agreement shouldn't sign it.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeC7 on 05/06/2023 8:49 AM
Thanks for the reply, this is a condominium, I may be a handy man volunteer if this waiver thing get reworded, the law seems to say gross negligence could be grounds for a law suite, I have read different articles and still not sure, the state of NH opted out of the federal laws , I believe.
Geo ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ

Associations that hire professionals for work like this require the workers to provide proof of insurance and signed contracts with waivers if they know what's good for them. If my board hired somebody without these things, my attorney would be sending them a stiffly worded letter about the consequences of pursuing this course of action. The board's job is to protect the interests of the association as a whole, not to serve the interests of an individual owner, and this seems like a clear failure of their fiduciary duty. It's even worse in condos since so much of the property is common elements.

I'd less worried about a volunteer doing office work, but even so... the craziest accidents can happen.

So, thumbs up to the board for thinking about liability, and two thumbs down for considering using a volunteer to do this kind of work.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeC7 on 05/06/2023 8:49 AM
Thanks for the reply, this is a condominium, I may be a handy man volunteer if this waiver thing get reworded, the law seems to say gross negligence could be grounds for a law suite, I have read different articles and still not sure, the state of NH opted out of the federal laws , I believe.
For liability reasons, I think conventional legal wisdom is that the board should make use of volunteers only for very basic, unskilled labor. Sometimes covenants require the use of licensed contractors. Sometimes they require bonding and other insurance for certain work. Sometimes the condo's insurer would reject a claim if there's //any chance// the claim was a result of a volunteer's handyperson work.

I do not think states can opt out of the application of the Volunteer Protection Act. The essence of the Act is:
"No volunteer of a nonprofit organization or governmental entity shall be liable for harm caused by an act or omission of the volunteer on behalf of the organization or entity."

Lots of us say the hell with the law, and do all manner of handyperson work for our HOAs or condo association. Maybe this is not prudent.

I do not think I have ever read of a volunteer doing handyperson type work being sued.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 05/06/2023 9:12 AM
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
To add to Cathy: Even with "unskilled" work, volunteers should not be climbing ladders, using power tools, messing with electricity (I'm not talking changing a light bulb) and motors and engines. Too much risk to the HOA if the handyman is injured.

Our condo HOA insurance, for example, does cover volunteer committee members, but does not permit them to do any of the above. As a director, you can imagine my horror rounding a corner in our lobby just in time to see an, um, older Social Committee volunteer on a tall ladder fall INTO a Christmas tree he was "helping" decorate while our bldg. engineer was on his break. both he & the tree were unhurt.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
While I can only speak for SC. SC does not require a company with less then 4 employees to have Workmen's Comp Insurance. Our MC informed my association that for about $500 per year we could buy a Workmen's Comp. Insurance policy to cover those companies that do not have Workmen's Comp. We did.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 05/06/2023 6:54 PM
... snip ... As a director, you can imagine my horror rounding a corner in our lobby just in time to see an, um, older Social Committee volunteer on a tall ladder fall INTO a Christmas tree he was "helping" decorate while our bldg. engineer was on his break. both he & the tree were unhurt.


I found out a few years ago that our board, which at the time was big on using volunteers, had a 70-year-old owner shoveling snow (*). The board crowed about this in the next newsletter. In another newsletter they described how some young children also participated in yard work. It's like they wanted to get sued... /smh

(* Lawyer's advice: do NOT use volunteers for snow removal, not even young healthy ones. We hear stories all the time about guys having heart attacks while shoveling snow. If you think an injury claim is bad, wait 'til someone dies.)

Insuring volunteers doesn't just involve workers comp. Regardless of all of the laws and fairness and whatnot, when things go sideways and somebody wants to sue, they're going to go after whoever they think has the bug bucks. This usually means the association, and the association has to protect itself accordingly. The board doesn't get to decide when a lawsuit is frivolous - that's up to the courts, so the association has to lawyer up and pay up, which may involve use of insurance funds.

Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 05/06/2023 6:54 PM
both he & the tree were unhurt.


KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeC7 on 05/05/2023 5:18 PM
Good evening, my HOA in Concord,NH is requiring any volunteer to sign a waiver, one item which I am not happy about , it basically says that if a volunteer causes bodily injury or ,property damage to a 3rd party , they can be held personally liable for all monetary costs and attorneys fee ordered by the courts.
Thoughts
Thanks
Geo๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ

I would think most HOAs have liability insurance policies to protect common property. That said, there's no reason for a volunteer to conduct true carpentry work at a condo or for a volunteer to handle repairs that require permitting or, technically, licensed professionals. I would not volunteer for tasks that reasonably require a liability waiver to be signed.

Example, I'd change the light bulb in the clubhouse and use a ladder as a volunteer. I would not change out the light socket or replace and electrical as a volunteer (though I have the ability and do so in my own home).
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 05/07/2023 6:09 AM
... snip ...

I would think most HOAs have liability insurance policies to protect common property. That said, there's no reason for a volunteer to conduct true carpentry work at a condo or for a volunteer to handle repairs that require permitting or, technically, licensed professionals. I would not volunteer for tasks that reasonably require a liability waiver to be signed.

Example, I'd change the light bulb in the clubhouse and use a ladder as a volunteer. I would not change out the light socket or replace and electrical as a volunteer (though I have the ability and do so in my own home).

The association's standard liability coverage generally does not cover volunteer workers, which is why workers comp or equivalent is recommended and why boards require hired professionals to be insured/licensed/etc.

This is why I state "volunteers aren't free" in my usual speech about the risks of using them - the association has to buy additional insurance over and above what they currently have, so it's an added expense that they probably haven't budgeted for.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
The Associations General Liability and Directors and Officers Insurance should technically cover you.
Additionally, there is likely language in your governing documents that protect you.
Furthermore, there are Federal and, likely, State laws that protect you.

Of course, this is of the expectation that the damage is not intentional.

See:

From a management company

Federal Volunteer Immunity Act of 1997--Summary and Copy from a CT attorney.

VOLUNTEER PROTECTION ACT OF 1997

Understanding the Volunteer Protection Act from an insurance company

Having posted all of this, you still have three choices:

1) Sign
2) Don't sign
3) Ask for clarifications - point out any applicable section of the governing documents, the federal act and insurance coverage.

After the clarifications, you will have two choices:

1) Sign
2) Don't sign
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 05/06/2023 9:12 AM
I do not think states can opt out of the application of the Volunteer Protection Act. The essence of the Act is: "No volunteer of a nonprofit organization or governmental entity shall be liable for harm caused by an act or omission of the volunteer on behalf of the organization or entity."
Wrong. I apologize to the OP. TimB4's link confirms that New Hampshire has indeed opted out of the Act. From https://www.nhmunicipal.org/town-city-article/volunteers-and-liability-overview-legal-protections-and-municipal-exposure:

At the federal level, Congress enacted the Federal Volunteer Protection Act of 1997 (VPA), which is found at 42 USC ยงยง 14501 through 14505. Normally, this federal law would preempt inconsistent state laws, but Congress included an โ€œopt-out" provision. New Hampshire exercised this authority, and as of 1998, the VPA does not apply to any civil action against a volunteer in a New Hampshire court in which all parties are citizens of New Hampshire. See Chapter 129, Laws of 1998.

The link has more detail on the point.

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